California Criminal Politicians Give Crony Kick-Back To Elon Musk


California Criminal Politicians Give Crony Kick-Back To Elon Musk

Write the California state senators protesting this outrageous raid of your wallet.  Find a state senator here:

Please email your argument against AB 1184 to the state senators today.
Demand that AB 1184 SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDE any entity owned by Elon Musk or his associates!

Demand that none of this taxpayer money be later re-routed, covertly through Elon Musk, to the political campaigns and personal stock holdings of Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama like they illegaly did before!

Green Cronyism Gone Wild: It Looks Like The State Of California Is Bailing Out Tesla

charles the moderator 

| Wolf Richter, Business Insider

The California state Assembly passed a $3-billion subsidy program for electric vehicles, dwarfing the existing program. The bill is now in the state Senate. If passed, it will head to Governor Jerry Brown, who has not yet indicated if he’d sign what is ostensibly an effort to put EV sales into high gear, but below the surface appears to be a Tesla bailout.

Tesla will soon hit the limit of the federal tax rebates, which are good for the first 200,000 EVs sold in the US per manufacturer beginning in December 2009 (IRS explanation). In the second quarter after the manufacturer hits the limit, the subsidy gets cut in half, from $7,500 to $3,750; two quarters later, it gets cut to $1,875. Two quarters later, it goes to zero.

Given Tesla’s ambitious US sales forecast for its Model 3, it will hit the 200,000 vehicle limit in 2018, after which the phase-out begins. A year later, the subsidies are gone. Losing a $7,500 subsidy on a $35,000 car is a huge deal. No other EV manufacturer is anywhere near their 200,000 limit. Their customers are going to benefit from the subsidy; Tesla buyers won’t.

This could crush Tesla sales. Many car buyers are sensitive to these subsidies. For example, after Hong Kong rescinded a tax break for EVs effective in April, Tesla sales in April dropped to zero. The good people of Hong Kong will likely start buying Teslas again, but it shows that subsidies have a devastating impact when they’re pulled.

That’s what Tesla is facing next year in the US.

In California, the largest EV market in the US, 2.7% of new vehicles sold in the first quarter were EVs, up from 0.4% in 2012, according to the California New Dealers Association. California is Tesla’s largest market. Something big needs to be done to help the Bay Area company, which has lost money every single year of its ten years of existence. And taxpayers are going to be shanghaied into doing it.

To make this more palatable, you have to dress this up as something where others benefit too, though the biggest beneficiary would be Tesla because these California subsidies would replace the federal subsidies when they’re phased out.

It would be a rebate handled at the dealer, not a tax credit on the tax return. And it could reach “up to $30,000 to $40,000” per EV, state Senator Andy Vidak, a Republican from Hanford, explained in an emailed statement.

This is how the taxpayer-funded rebates in the “California Electric Vehicle Initiative” (AB1184) would work, according to the Mercury News:

The [California Air Resources Board] would determine the size of a rebate based on equalizing the cost of an EV and a comparable gas-powered car. For example, a new, $40,000 electric vehicle might have the same features as a $25,000 gas-powered car. The EV buyer would receive a $7,500 federal rebate, and the state would kick in an additional $7,500 to even out the bottom line.

And for instance, a $100,000 Tesla might be deemed to have the same features as a $65,000 gas-powered car. The rebate would cover the difference, minus the federal rebate (so $27,500). Because rebates for Teslas will soon be gone, the program would cover the entire difference – $35,000. This is where Senator Vidak got his “$30,000 to $40,000.”

The Tesla Model 3 would be tough to sell without the federal $7,500. But this new bill would push Californian taxpayers into filling the void. It would be a godsend for Tesla.

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137 thoughts on “Green Cronyism Gone Wild: It Looks Like The State Of California Is Bailing Out Tesla

  1. Colin Peterson


    Musk is a an expert subsidy farmer. All his ventures rely on taxpayer money. his latest wailing about how AI will take over and we need urgent regulation is exactly his same old strategy. regulation will mean subsidy to fund his AI research/voodoo.



    • Tsk Tsk


      You’re drooling a bit when you talk about Musk’s grand plan. He mostly doesn’t hit his goals. He may want to get to Mars (may), but don’t kid yourself that he’s got this master plan that’s unfolding. His only “success” to date is SpaceX and since he’s not releasing any financials on that we don’t even know how well that’s truly going.


    • David Dirkse


      MarkW, Trump has the resources to wine and dine lawmakers, but he still can’t repeal an replace Obamacare.

      Must take more than wining and dining to influence lawmakers.

    • MarkW


      Paul, how many of us have the resources to win and dine lawmakers? Musk can and does spend money to get lawmakers to put these gems into the tax code on his behalf.

    • george e. smith


      Well it all depends on whose Ox is being Gored, doesn’t it ??



  2. noaaprogrammer


    So will Caliafornia tax payers also be subsidizing out-of-state buyers?


    • RockyRoad


      They should–it’s simply borderless income redistribution.


    • BallBounces


      Yes, but only if they provide documentation to prove they are undocumented.


    • kramer


      Don’t know if this will happen but CA is in a cap-and-trade scheme with Canada (Ontario I think…). I bet there is a way that some of our higher cap-and-trade costs are somehow going through Canada to third world countries… Wouldn’t also be surprised if the ‘costs’ of cap-and-trade are somehow profiting big banks – as well as providing revenue for the state of CA mainly from the middle class that results in the rich keeping more of their wealth (less reason to raise taxes on the rich since the revenue stream is flush with green taxes or cap-and-trade revenues).


  3. RayG


    I have written to my CA. state senator protesting this outrageous raid of my wallet. It is too late to protest in the Assembly. California voters can find their state senator here:

    Please email your argument against AB 1184 to your state senator today.


  4. rocketscientist


    How many poor folk are buying these cars? How many poor folk will be paying for this subsidy through their taxes?
    Looks like this “green subsidy” is actually reversing the distribution of wealth intended by the watermelons.


    • Sean


      Most of the elite environmentalists think that there are too many people in California. The most deplorable of these are blue collar rednecks who reside in the inland valleys. The just passed cap and trade legislation will add $250 per household to the cost of living in the state, the transportation bill passed last spring added $300 per household and this would tack on a couple hundred dollars more. The legislation already passed is indexed to inflation. A lot of blue collar jobs and the deplorable rednecks who do the work will likely need to leave the state. I suspect there are a lot of wealthy coastal residents who’ll see that as a collateral benefit.


      • rocketscientist


        Any collateral benefit quickly evaporates as soon as the wealthy coastal residents realize that they will now have to shoulder the burden previously borne by the departed residents.


      • AntonyIndia


        The Green Elite cannot see that far, because everyone in their circle is buying a costly Tesla. Don’t quiz them on their air miles either!

    • Science or Fiction


      Seems true to me. The green energy subsidy hysteria increases the electricity cost. It doesn´t bother me much per today, I can pay for it. I feel sorry for the poor though.
      I also drive an electric car that is heavy subsidised. In addition to no tax on the purchase, I got free toll passings, free ferries. It doesn´t help much for the CO2 emissions though:

      Electrical Vehicles convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels” and
      “Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.” – 
      The official government source for fuel economy information

      However, a lot of the electricity on the grid is produced from fossil fuel. (Unless the consumers has bought a Guarantee of Origin that is largely right even in Norway. Even though Norway, in theory, produces enough hydropower for its own consumption Link, Norway has sold the hydropower to Europeans by Guarantees of origin. Those without a guaranty of origin by definition run on 57 % fossil fuel and 31 % nuclear )

      The “Typical thermal efficiency for utility-scale electrical generators is around 33% for coal and oil-fired plants” – Fossil fuel power station

      60 % fuel efficiency by the electrical vehicle powered from the grid
      multiplied with:
      33 % fuel efficiency by the fossil fuel machine powering the grid
      Total fuel efficiency is about 20 % for an electric vehicle powered from a grid that is mainly powered by fossil fuel. Which is about the same as for a conventional gasoline vehicle.
      (There is also a transmission loss in the electric grid that I have not taken into account.)


    • Alan Robertson


      Wealth and power concentration in the hands of a few at the top, has always been the plan.
      It isn’t what they say, it’s what they do.


    • Tsk Tsk


      You can’t begrudge the ruling class the tools it needs to succeed, can you? Socialism for thee, not for me.


  5. Mike McMillan


    Sounds like something Illinois should try.


  6. James


    In the mean time California’s roads, bridges, dams and other infrastructure are falling apart and our water infrastructure hasn’t kept pace with the growing demands of the states growing population meaning the state can’t weather the states frequent droughts. Fiddling while Rome burns comes to mind for some reason.


    • Tom


      The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money”. I think California is getting close.



      • Alan Robertson


        That’s partly why you see the concentrated “Progressive” power in Silicon Valley, ramping up their power and influence in the Democratic party, nationwide.
        There’s lots more money for them to run through, out here in flyover country.

      • D. J. Hawkins


        @Jim Butler
        If the debt service (interest+principal) on the debt remains a relatively constant percentage of revenues, the Federal government can “afford” to increase the debt indefinitely. The problem is that if you have a severe enough economic contraction and revenues tank you get the one-two punch of debt service siphoning funds that then requires adding even more debt to offset the revenue drop. Keep it up for a few quarters and you have Zimbabwe hyperinflation. Actually, they didn’t go hyper, they went right to plaid with the peak monthly inflation rate in November of 2008 of 79.6 billion percent. Ironically, Zimbabwe solved this problem by making the US dollar their official currency.

      • drednicolson


        Last I checked, total US assets are valued at around $200 trillion. The debt hockey stick is a big problem, but far from bankrupting the country.

        We could always sell California back to Mexico. :D

  7. Latitude


    How long can Calif keep doing this?


    • Sheri


      As long as people vote in representatives who will keep writing checks for it, or until they are bailed out when the checks bounce. As in forever.


      • Frederic


        Representative governance evaporated when proposed legislation went into the dark “Committee” process. Inside of all committees there is unlimited access to the written direction of the ‘proposal’ via a pay up front. This direction in total is never debated on the floor of House. State committee process is little different in most cases. Thus crony politics.

      • Leonard Lane


        Latitude, Sheri, this is the inevitable result of one party (Democrat/Progressive/Socialist) rule. And it can go on a long time, e.g. Cuba, Venezuela, and so on.

    • gnomish


      as long as people pay taxes they will get what they paid for.
      whining about it will surely help, said nobody ever.
      voting for the other cannibal is a viable alternative, said the cannibal’s brother in law.

      bureaucracies multiply to eat our your substance only because it’s so well funded by those who are consumed. it doesn’t stop till tea in the bay.


  8. commieBob


    What advantage does Tesla have over conventional auto makers who want to also sell electric cars? As far as I can tell the answer is … zero advantage.

    Tesla compares with RIM (now Blackberry), who brought us the smart phone. When Apple and Google decided to eat RIM’s breakfast, it was no contest. If electric cars suddenly became economical, the major companies, most of whom have a foot in the market, would take Tesla’s market share in a heartbeat.




    • Bartleby


      No competition Bob, you’re right on that.

      Musk is a “loss leader”. Anyone investing in that company above $17/share is a complete fool. Watch as the stock price plummets on the timeline described in this article. Tesla is very clearly a short play.


    • Tsk Tsk


      Obviously Musk has the only battery factory in the world! None of this actually solves the problems with the batteries themselves including the very real problem of only having ~1% the specific energy of gasoline. And at the rate they’re advancing we can expect parity sometime well into the 22nd century (optimistic linear extrapolation) or never (more realistic quadratic curve fit).

    • markl


      Yes, and fully charging Li battery shortens the life as well. Tesla has two charging modes… 80% for normal charge and 100% when you need extended range. If you were to constantly use the ‘super charger’ stations and charge to 100% the battery life would be seriously degraded and I’m not sure it would be covered by the warranty under ‘adverse usage’.

    • Roger Knights


      I read here a few days ago that fast-charging a battery shortens its life.

    • John Hardy


      chadb. Chile is the leading exporter of lithium followed by Argentina.

    • chadb


      This just in – China has halted exports of raw lithium and will only allow exports of battery packs. Now imagine you’re Tesla when that news breaks.

    • scarletmacaw


      If you want to drive your EV long distance, just tow a trailer with a petrol-fueled generator to keep your charge up. The enviros would be appalled, but it’s practical.

      Assuming there’s a way to hook a trailer to an EV.

    • David Dirkse


      The 2nd generation Chevy Volt has a range of 420 miles.

      Keep in mind it is a hybrid, not a pure EV.

  9. MJB


    So, what’s to stop dealers from jacking up the price knowing the State will pickup the difference? I’m half surprised they did not also allow this for used cars, so people could just perpetually buy and sell used EVs and pile up the subsidies.



    • Alan Robertson


      Want to know how the dealers will play this?
      Just ask any car salesman you know, how they play a “Hail Sale”. Insurance pays for the damage, the factories give discounts to the dealer and the dealer reduces the cost to buyer enough to close the sale, making the best recurring large profit opportunity that dealers enjoy.

    • Writing Observer


      BECAUSE they aren’t costing them anything.

      Jack the price up $20K, that is $20K more in their pockets, without affecting sales – because it’s not costing the customer anything, either.

      Visibly, of course.

  10. Tom Halla


    Gov Moonbeam also has to believe that the state will stay solvent until a Democratic federal administration is in office to bail them out. Brown has a very serious issue with unfunded pension obligations, just like Illinois, and any general financial downturn will probably drive the state into bankruptcy.


  11. TomRude


    Let’s be sure that the rabid Green Libs in Canada will follow suit…


  12. co2isnotevil


    One advantage of Brown’s insanity is that once the science is corrected, and the Trump administration is on the path to achieve this goal, the uselessness and wastefulness of progressive green policies will come to the forefront and hopefully, people will open their eyes and apply critical thinking to the rest of progressive platform which suffers from many of the same faults.

    I would like to see the administration produce an executive order that prohibits states from enacting policy based on the presumption that the laws of physics can be arbitrarily violated.

    This should also serve as ground for vacating the endangerment finding as SCOTUS lacks the authority to overturn the laws of physics.


  13. chadb


    So I asked a friend a few days back to consider the following about a Tesla:
    Q: If every 3 hours you had to stop for 1hr to recharge the car would you pay $90k for that car?
    Answer: No
    Followup: Would you pay $10k for it?
    Answer: Probably not.

    Therein lies the problem. A true plugin hybrid where you run off the battery (up to 40 mi) and can either charge from the battery or a dedicated small motor (a suburban would probably require 40hp, a civic 7hp) would get 90% of the benefits with very little cost and without the drawbacks. In fact for the small cars you could likely air cool the system since it would have large periods where the small motor was off. It would likely allow one of the tiny rotory motors being developed by places like liquidpiston, or Mazda’s concepts.


    • dgp


      Have you seen a free piston engine/linear generator? I think Toyota was working on one.


      • co2isnotevil


        The stated range assumes that you’re driving like you’re on Quaaludes. Step on the accelerator and the miles you can travel on a charge drops dramatically. After all, it’s supposed to be a ‘sports car’, right?

        The real point is that it takes less then 10 minutes to refill the gas tank on my SUV which gets me about 400 miles. I certainly value my time, especially discretionary time which I value more highly, don’t you?

        BTW, if you are driving a Tesla, you will tend to stop at every ‘super charger’ station you come across and suck down some subsidized electricity just to be sure you can make it to the next one which tends to be spaced about half a battery pack away on some freeways. BTW, the electricity at a super charger station will not be subsidized for long and based on ‘renewable’ electric rates, electricity is far more expensive per Joule than gasoline. Also, charging stations are few and far between and there are large portions of the country that you can not get to and back without requiring a charge. If you are stuck plugging into a wall socket, it will take many hours just to get a partial charge.

        As chadb pointed out above, the right kind of electric car is one that has a built in generator running off a gasoline motor and for peak power demands can run off the combination of the batteries and generator. I would even buy one of these if I could get a peak of 300HP to the wheels in a 2 ton 4wd SUV (I drive in a lot of snow, go off road frequently and tackle big grades carrying lots of gear). The only problem with this is that the idiotic greenies are deathly afraid of Co2 emissions owing to their pathological ignorance regarding climate science and this unfounded fear has leaked into political ideologies. They only pay attention to one side of the debate and the side they listen to is the one based on demonstrably broken science.

      • Rhee


        The problem is your assumption that the drivers will accept range limits because typical driving is local and everybody travelling long distances will simply accept the inconvenience of halting their trip for long periods to charge. The vast majority of us enjoy the freedom to set out serendipitously without anxiety that there won’t be a supercharger station out in the middle of nowhere.

      • Dave_G


        How many vehicles pass through a conventional fuel station in a day? Such stations may have 8 dispensing pumps capable of serving 50+ vehicles every hour.

        Can you see even half that figure parked up for 30 minutes at a time? An electric recharging station would need 100+ charging points to cater for the same throughput.

      • E.M.Smith


        220 miles from Silicon Valkey on I-5 headed to Los Angeles is the middle of nowhere. (I drove that a half dozen times a year for decades… Disneyland, kid’s college, headed to Texas or Florida, etc).

        At 440 miles, you are in the middle of sourhern nowhere. At 660 you are in the LA basin near my kid’s college.

        So forget your supercharger station. They don’t exist in the desert…

        Now also note, that involves running the battery flat empty. That is damaging to the battery. Next it assumes full recharges, which doesn’t happen in your 80% scenario. Try again…

        Oh, I frequently made that run with only ONE gas stop at The Grapevine. 5 minutes, max. Often at night (I.e. no meal stops needed).

        No way am I signing up for at least 3 and likely 4 slow charges to get to LA. It is hard enough to keep kids quiet on a fast run to Disneyland. Toss in 2 or 3 more long stops, it would be hell.

        Now, take a look at driving to Dallas from LA. At Van Horn Texas there is a strech of I-10 about 234 miles without a gas station. Just what dust pile with no powerlines is going to be your supercharger station? I get worried about that stretch in my Diesel with 450 mile range (forgot to fillup once at the entry and realized 1/2 tank was cutting it close…) I’ve done that particular chunk of I-10 a few dozen times. Once on an emergency run from Florida when the mother-in-law was hospitalized. 4 folks in the wagon, rotating 3 drivers, made the run from Orlando to San Jose in 56 hours. 2835 miles. Think that will work in a Tesla?

        On vacation, we drove to Marble Bar at the end of the Grand Canyon. Wonderful place. One gas station in the middle of nowhere in the Indian reservation. Buy gas there, or don’t make it across… That was 20 years ago, but I doubt it changed much.

        I’m not interested in a car that can’t get me to L.A. in 6 hours, requires me to stop in the middle of nowhere, can’t cross Texas on I-10, can’t support an emergency high speed run of distance, and doesn’t tollerate full drain of the battery then full charge well.

        Oh, and don’t talk to me about the run from Denver across “flyover country” for about 12 hours of wheat and corn… or crossing Montana and South Dakota to Chicago. Or the time I drove from Calgary Canada to the Rockies and back… Canada has flat empty too…

        As a second car for commuting and groceries, fine. Especially if your employer has a charging station. Not interested in laying a drop cord to the street (large numbers of folks don’t park in a garage…)


  14. John Hagan


    I’m so tired of hearing Musk hailed as a genius. With the money he’s received from the government, anyone could look brilliant. Well…except Solyndra.


    • Sheri


      He’s a genius at ripping off taxpayers, lying and pretending to care. Geniuses are always very limited in what they can do. These are Musk’s areas.




  15. philjourdan


    Want to bet that Musk bails on the market after the subsidies disappear?

    California can try to carry their water. But it is already broke. To do so, they will have to dip into CalPers and regardless of how liberal you are, no one messes with your retirement.


    • Tom Anderson


      Elon is probably counting Tesla’s being acquired by some benighted automaker, which the govt has anointed as “too big to fail.” So we’ll keep on paying.


      • markl


        “…Elon is probably counting Tesla’s being acquired by some benighted automaker…” There is nothing special about Tesla that an established automaker would want. They are all in the process of making their own EVs anyway just so they won’t be left behind and so they can say “me too, I’m green”. Tesla is actually losing money on every car it sells if you look at their financials closely. Without subsidies they would be selling much fewer cars…… like in Denmark where they dropped completely off the map with new car sales once the subsidies were removed.

  16. arthur4563


    I don’t believe even Californians are dumb enough to support this idea. What’s to stop Musk from upping his car’s price, knowing that California will pay the extra dollars? And if California’s idea is to get the max effect , they shouldn’t even subsidize those $100,000 cars, which eliminate no more CO2 than the $35,000 vehicles.
    I would also love to see how they compare cars to see if they have the “same features.” Talk about apples and oranges.


    • mark


      You underestimate the stupidity of the California voter (and I’m a native Californian so I’ve seen a lot of stupidity).


  17. Sheri


    You have to BRIBE people to buy electric vehicles—they are that bad, it seems. If you have to bribe me to buy a car, I know for a fact I’m being ripped off.





    • Sheri


      I must have missed the federal subsidy given for golf carts. Sigh. I didn’t have to pay retail……

    • D. J. Hawkins



      Absent further evidence to the contrary, I believe David was simply trying to inject a little levity into the discussion. Don’t turn it up to “11” unless you really have to.

    • Alan Robertson


      I won’t ask you if you really are that stupid, but I could.

      What you are, in fact, is a propagandist. You are trying to divert everyone’s attention to some tiny little “fact” which has no bearing on the matter whatsoever, so that you might deflect attention from the whole truth.

  18. vukcevic


    A year later, the subsidies are gone.”

    No problem, move ‘Tesla’ cars production to France.
    “France will outlaw the sale of all petrol and diesel vehicles by 2040, its new environment minister, Nicolas Hulot, has announced.”


  19. markl


    EV market penetration speaks for itself. It’s also a diminishing returns market with the more being sold the harder it will be to get charged on the road. Bribing or forcing (EV only cities) people into EVs will work for the niche that can actually make good use of one….. short commute, home overnight charging, and a second ICE car for extended trips. If you can fit an EV into your schedule you’re good to go. I don’t know anyone who’s driven or taken a ride in one that’s come away with a negative experience. I certainly don’t like my taxes being used to bribe people into buying one. California’s day of reckoning is nigh. It will soon be populated by nothing but elites and welfare recipients. It’s not that far from it now. Is that the Utopia they seek?


    • E.M.Smith


      Most folks in Silicon Vally live in apartments with carports or uncovered parking, not garages. Only rich folks here have cars in garages. Electric cars have that to contend with too. Poor folks park on the street, so overnight home charging is market limiting. Musk will need to convince employers to install charging stations…

      The local Walmart has a couple. It is interesting to watch folks sitting in their cars in the heat waiting for the charge to finish while I load up the groceries and leave… some of them are sitting in their cars when I arrive and still there when I leave.
      Great advertizing ; sarc/


  20. MikeN


    You left out the massive subsidy that comes from California’s mileage mandates. Tesla sells permits to other car companies. Audi, chadb


    By the way, if you make the electricity free the payback is cut to a mere 185k miles.


  21. whiten


    Let the Games begin…….

    More, lots more popcorn…. and more fizzy drinks…….

    Elon does not know what to do next,,,, can not even be able to make his own mind up and decide according to his own free will, as he is not allowed to do so anymore under any circumstances given , with all his wealth and all that to count for……really to bad….a real pity, for such a guy,,,,, seems like a huge waste…

    Hopefully he makes it out of this crazy “Rat Barrel” walk in he is ordered to walk in to…..which will result in end up to for him be no more or no less than food for cannon…for the survival of the cannibal savage rats like Moony….or Aly



  22. cwon14


    California is a Ponzi beneficiary as well . They front the 3 billion here but inflate Tesla CA employment and bubble benefits that much longer. When it busts it will be someone else’s fault.

    First Solar and Germany have done this dance for years. Stock 80% off high and still at the subside troth acting like a startup to be nurtured by government.

    Musk is a welfare queen.


  23. JDN


    Now that it’s a rebate instead of a tax credit, can anyone walk into California, buy a subsidized Tesla then sell it out of state? Just asking for a friend.


    • observa


      Sounds like Californians will have lots of friends interstate with this racket :)


  24. Dr. Strangelove


    Zero to 60 MPH in 5.6 sec. Tesla Model 3 is pathetic. Slower than my grandma’s car

    Caroll Shelby in the 1962 Shelby Cobra (0 to 60 in 4.9 sec.)


] freedumbz 1 points (+2|-1)  ago 

This nonsense with Tesla needs to end already. It's been proven ten years over to be a non-viable venture. Cut your damn losses and move on Elon. Invest in something worthwhile rather than just farming subsidies.





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